Inglorious Brothers
Musings and ruminations with Justin and Matt Harper on pop culture, music, movies and TV, gaming, comedy, politics, and whatever else might be swimming around in the zeitgeist.
Inglorious Brothers
Indigo Girls: Nomads and Rites - S2E17
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On today’s show, we’re looking back on two records by two artists that had a big, big influence on both of early musical inspiration. The artists: Amy Ray and Emily Saliers, aka The Indigo Girls. The records: Nomads ⬪ Indians ⬪ Saints and Rites of Passage. We’re diving deep on both of these magnificent albums to get into everything we love about the songwriting, the guitar playing, the vocal harmonizing, and the deep, deep meaning behind so many of the lyrics. It’s gonna be a good one, so get on the bus, y’all!
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It's the pop culture show with Cult Classic Swagger. This is Inglorious Brothers. I'm Matt Harper, and together with my brother Justin, we dive into the deep end of the Zeitgeist each week to bring you cool talk and hot takes. No genre is too specific, no topic too broad, and no rabbit hole too deep as we open our minds and enjoy each other's company. Sound good? Then let's ride. Hello and welcome to Inglorious Brothers. I'm Matt, and I'm here with my brother Justin. And on today's show, we are taking a big walk down our personal musical memory lane to take a look at two records by one artist. Well, they're actually two artists, but the records are by one artist. You get the point. Who is this? These artists? They are Amy Ray and Emily Salyers, better known to the world as the Indigo Girls. After hitting a big home run with their second album, Indigo Girls, the duo from Decatur, Georgia followed that record up with two certified masterpieces, in our opinion at least, Nomad's Indians Saints, and Rites of Passage. The records are chocked full of hits, bangers, earworms, heartbreakers, and stone cold classics, and saw the two take bold steps forward with each subsequent album while still remaining true to the creative building blocks that made up their sound. Beautiful, catchy acoustic guitar riffs and devastating vocal harmonies combined with deep, insightful, culturally aware lyrics to create one of the most unique and listenable bands of the early 90s. In fact, the fact that they were basically an acoustic folk group operating in a modern indie rock space only lends more credence to the quality of their music. I know your love for them runs as deep as mine, so I'm glad you suggested we revisit these two terrific albums. And so for today, yes, the initials of our show will remain IB, but today we are not the Inglorious Brothers. Today, we are the Indigo Boys. What an intro.
SPEAKER_02What an intro.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. I appreciate that. We're talking, we're talking the Indigo Girls today, uh, a band that is central to our early love of music, I would say, uh, on both on both accounts. You know, we both came up like so many white people.
SPEAKER_02Early for me. Early for me, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Um, pretty early for me, too. I mean, like as soon as their first hit dropped, I was all over that band.
SPEAKER_02Um so I I wrote down a couple of questions, and one of them was because absolutely you were my doorway into this group. How did you first get into the indigo girls?
SPEAKER_00I was like good friends with Tony Fletcher, and we were really getting into bands like REM and 10,000 Maniacs, and the Indigo Girls slid right out of that like whole scene, you know. Um the Georgia thing, and it was modern rock, and that song uh uh Closer to Fine was just like such an absolute earworm. Like it was inescapable during that year when it came out.
SPEAKER_02Um you had like you had what three bands that came out of that time? You had REM, you had them, and you had the B-52s, were all from Athens area.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right, yeah. Um the Athens scene, I would say. Yeah, and so that that that uh that song comes out, takes over the world, and uh you get the record, and you find this little nugget at the end of of the first or the second, I should say, the second indigo girls record. Um, a little little uh collaboration with Michael Stipe called Kid Fears, that is just the coolest song in the world. And to hear that iconic voice of Michael Stipe come in just at the end of the song, it just like it's certified their like their legitimacy and their authenticity. It's like, okay, there's this cool like folk rock kind of duo that sing these beautiful harmonies. Oh, oh, they're they're doing it with Michael Stipe. Oh, these this is the real deal here.
SPEAKER_02Essentially got co-signed.
SPEAKER_00And then you listen to that record. Um, you know, you run out and you buy that record because you're you know getting all the all the the the records that you know mean something to you, to to your your taste, and you you get just banger after banger after banger on that on that record. I mean, you get uh secure yourself and blood and fire and you know blood and fire is a banger. And and and on that record, and and this is kind of one of the points I wanted to make, you see a template almost being set, right? And it's some of the stuff that I talked about in the intro, right? So they they write really catchy acoustic guitar riffs, right? And they can apply that to uh up an upsong or a down song, a fast song or a slow song. Um it seems like every record you get at least one song where it's just one woman and her guitar, like a solo performance, like when um when uh Amy did um the dire straits song. What what's the one? Um Romeo and Julia Romeo and Juliet. Um you get one of those on on this record, and then on the two that we're gonna be talking about today, um, you get a very like like heartfelt, like tender, contemplative, slow song like History of Us on on Indigo Girls, and then on Nomads, Indians and Saints, you get um I think you get a couple.
SPEAKER_02I mean you could put Ghost in that category.
SPEAKER_00Ghost is the one is is on the next one, and then the one on Nomads is uh You and Me of the Ten Thousand Wars. Oh yeah. Just an emotionally devastating song. Um, and that song, that's one of those one of those songs that has that magic trick where you can listen to it in a in a in a relationship significant other mind state and it'll it'll destroy you, but then you can flip that to like a parent child and it'll destroy you all over again. Like incredible song. And that's the other thing. The really, really interesting and like deep lyrics, don't you agree? Like there's something very deep and thoughtful about the lyrics that these guys are.
SPEAKER_02I mean, they're a they're amazing lyricists. So there's a couple of things that I learned this week as I was doing my research. So one of the things that I did not know that I find that it totally makes sense, and when you when you bring it up the way that you're bringing it up, it also makes even more sense. Did you know that they don't write songs together?
SPEAKER_00Uh I I can't say that I actively knew that, but it it makes sense to me.
SPEAKER_02So essentially the way that it works is they write a song themselves, all right, and then they come together for the arrangement of said song, all right. But actively writing, they're writing these songs completely separate to each other. All right. Like they are not like similar to the side.
SPEAKER_00So they collaborate on the arrangements of the song. So what? They're right, they so they come they come with like a handful of like already written songs and choruses. Right. And then like let's figure out how to put this together.
SPEAKER_02And how you know, like, how are the harmonies gonna work? How you know, what other instruments are we gonna have, you know. But essentially it is a woman in her guitar, and that is how they write these songs.
SPEAKER_00Well, I guess help me understand, like to me, the arrangement is like how the song is structured with verses, choruses, bridges, solos, etc. That's hard. That is the writer, but what I mean by the arrangement So like after that point when they add in the harmonies, the other instruments, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, see that that makes sense. So they each they each write they each write completed songs and then they embellish them when they when they collaborate. Yes, that's their collaboration.
SPEAKER_02Which when you say it the way that you just said it, it makes total sense and it really, really does um lend itself to these extremely introspective, you know, songs that have just they're multifaceted, and they, you know, they they're love songs and they're, you know, some of them are just are fun and some of them are just you know completely, you know, completely in a different different headspace.
SPEAKER_00But they're tapped into some certain like some certain like cultural reference points that that that really um I that I find just really kind of cool and impressive. Like, like there's something very sort of like university level about these lyrics, you know what I mean? Like there's there's there is there are references, you know, I mean in their in their big hit song, you know, with the poster of Rasputin, you know, like or in um in World Falls when when they're like Sejarez says, Don't let go, plant these seeds and watch them go, which is one of the best moments in any song that they have, is like that moment right there when they come out of the chorus, the first chorus in that song, and then like that that little string of lyrics and the way it just bounces is just it's perfect.
SPEAKER_02Virginia Wolf on Rights of Passage is is is just there. You go, right, you know, a lyrical painting of you know of Virginia Wolf and what it meant to you know, what it meant to them. The other thing that I really, you know, I guess I was aware, but I wasn't like the aswork, dude. Amy Ray can play her ass off, bro. Like she is really, really good. Like she's the one that's doing most of that, like, you know, the the technical guitar shit is is mostly Amy.
SPEAKER_00I don't think so.
SPEAKER_02I think I think they're both no. I watched them in a very stripped-down performance. Oh no, no, you're right. You're right. You're right, you're right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, now Emily, I feel like the later stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you watch the later stuff, um your Amy, Amy's voice bless her, is like falling off of a off a peg big time. Which it's gonna happen when you get older, and you know, just depending on on stuff, it's a little depressing, but they're still, you know, they're still so good at what they do that, you know, even as they get older, you you still just get locked in.
SPEAKER_02So in a way, but in a way, I will say this is there's something there's something endearing about her voice. Uh I would call it like a falter. Like her voice kind of falters for her in in some of the like the stronger it's not as powerful as it once was.
SPEAKER_00Correct. It's not it's not near it's not nearly as powerful as it once was because in their heyday, like my god, that that's is it's one of the things that just just made them so compelling is is is how just how big they would go with those harmonies, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Well, and I mean that to me is the biggest signature. It's it's how they interweave. Because obviously, so you know, Amy has a a bit of a higher register, and I and keeping that higher register over time is always going to be the har the hardest thing for it, you know, which is why Emily's you know parts seem to be a little more evergreen, is just that you know she's doing a lot more of the falsetto high stuff versus Amy doing a lot more of the the the bassy, you know, low end of of the sound spectrum. So, you know, but it's it's that juxtaposition of their two styles of singing that have lent themselves to these amazing harmonic arrangements that they are able to put into these songs. And that's what that's what still attracts me to these records all of these years later is like I'll be listening to it and just be like, man, I never noticed this, you know, this little this little bit of harmony that they do here, or you know, how they play off of each other on, you know, this song. Or it's very thoughtful to who takes what part where. And it's I don't know, man. There there's there's nothing that in my opinion comes really close to the way that they coalesce with each other in those early days, in those early records. I mean, it is it is the cohesion of those two vocal styles is uh unbelievable. And that to me is what the staying power is, because I am so enthralled by the two of them and what they're able to produce sonically. I mean, it's it's just the sound is just amazing to me. As as a musician, it uh has always captured my imagination to a degree. Because I mean that that like I love to sing, you know, backup. So when I was in, you know, my most recent band, you know, I was I relished the fact that I didn't have to take lead on vocals and I could sing harmonies and I could work out harmonies on songs and and be the oohs and the ahs and the the part that fills out that sound. And the way that they complement each other is just it's it's just one of the most you know one of the things that brings me the most joy musically in in my entire life.
SPEAKER_00They certainly uh have a knack for just writing catchy guitar riffs and as you say, like just catchy perfect harmonies. Um I find that that listening back to these albums I feel like I know every single note to every single harmony line because they're so well written and I've listened to them so many times that it's not just a melody that I just have like locked into my DNA at this point, but like every single moment of harmony, like it's just so perfect. Um and I I did a play in high school. I did, I think it was when I did uh Little Shop of Horrors. That was in college. And no, Little Shop of Horrors was in high school. 1940s radio hour was in college.
SPEAKER_02Um both of those were at Frostburg. I remember going to see them. I remember going to Frostburg to see Little Shop.
SPEAKER_00Please don't, please don't dictate to me my life. Uh I did Little Shop of Horrors in high school. Matt Lyons was played Seymour. I went to high school with Matt Lyons. Tim Gleason, who I went to high school with, played The Plant. Tim Argauer, one of my high school chums, played Mr. Mushnick. All right. I did that in high school. Um I also uh know that I did that in Washington, D.C. in high school because as you'll see in this anecdote that I'm about to tell, uh we had to go downtown to the apartment of the woman who was doing the music for that play um to learn our harmony parts. And I'll never forget this. I think I I think I went down there twice. I took the metro um or I took a bus down there with like two of my classmates, and then we met up with like two girls from Immaculata who were uh singing in the play. And we all met at this woman's apartment building. She came downstairs, she let us in, and we went upstairs to her apartment. She's got in a piano there, and we spend like three hours, and she is just sitting there running us through all of our parts and like, all right, here's how your part's gonna go, sweetheart. And she's like, that dot that okay, sing that. Okay, and we'd sing it. All right, you're a little flat there. So remember that that and she'd sing it again. And so she would literally just part by part teach everyone their parts, and he'd she'd show you the notes, and she was so like she was so effortless on piano that you know, she she just you could she was a pro. And uh from that moment forward, I just absolutely loved everything about harmonizing, vocal harmonizing, learning parts, figuring out what the right note was, and when you get it right, it ch there's magic there. You know, it just sounds so sublime. And the and there's nobody better than the indigo girls. It's at least, you know, not not in my opinion back then. I'm sure there are plenty of people that can harmonize just as good as the indigo girls, but they they they have a really unique thing going.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, but that's the thing, is that it's it's not it's not all traditional. It's it is it is unique to them in a way. Like they do it in a way that I don't feel like anybody else, at least at the time, was doing it. I don't really think that anybody does it the way that they do it now. You know what I mean? Like I just I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are better examples that you know been artists and bands that we don't know, but I mean it's just there's something about the two of them and the way that they compliment each other that is it's so unique to me. And I have to I can't tell you how many, you know, significant others I have tried to get into this band, and I cannot get any of them into it. And what's so funny is my wife, who is a singer and loves harmonies, I can't get her into the Indigo Girls to save my life.
SPEAKER_00That's funny you mentioned that because when Mandy and I got together, we like we didn't like connect over this band or anything, but I knew that she liked them. Um and sh I think yeah, like I think she was very much aware of Galileo um and some of their other songs. I but I didn't well, I don't know, we never really went deep on or anything. But one year on my birthday, um we had uh gone out to dinner at Pensacola Beach on the boardwalk. We ate we ate dinner down there someplace and it was a nice night. I think it was when she was pregnant. Um and yeah, because it was like maybe it wasn't my birthday, but I feel I feel like it was my birthday though. But yeah, I guess we she would have been showing. She I think cause I remember her being pregnant, and uh once again I know I don't have to worry about her correcting me because she doesn't listen. She's not gonna be able to do that. Um Yeah, my wife either. Um but we were wandering down the boardwalk and there was music like coming from the beach down at the end of the boardwalk, and we kind of wander down there, and it's like, oh, the indigo girls are playing a show on the beach right here, and we didn't even know. And she's like, Let's go see if we can get in. We walk over and we're like, Can we get in? And they were just like, Yeah, just go ahead on in. Like it was a fully ticketed event and everything. Uh and you know, Pensacola is a big, is a big gay area, which is like one of the things like like like the indigo girls are like like lesbian icons um at this point, and there was just like tons and tons of gay kids down there. Um, and they were just like people at the ticket window were just so chill, yeah, just go on in. So we we saw the indigo girls for free on Pensacola Beach.
SPEAKER_02That that was that was one of my questions that I had. How do you have you ever seen them live? So had you seen them live prior to that? I've never gotten a chance.
SPEAKER_00I had not seen them live prior to that. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02So that would have been like 200 like 10. 11? No. When year were your daughters born? Who did I see? I saw in 2000. So probably 2011. Your daughters were born in 2012, right?
SPEAKER_0012, yeah. Yeah. No, 13. My daughters were born in 13. I was married in 12. So that would have been they're two years younger than Connor?
SPEAKER_02I thought they were only one year. Oh, okay. So it's probably 2012 when that when when you see them. No, 2013, summer of 13. Oh, oh, oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
SPEAKER_00Um, but uh what I really should go back to look at, I saw a show at Meriwether Post Pavilion way back when I want to say it was an Earth Day concert, and Michael Stipe came out on stage and sang something with somebody. But I don't think the indigo girls were at that concert. I cannot remember who it might have been. But I'm sure if I go on uh whatever that, what is that? What's that site where you can look up all the set list? Yeah, I'm gonna look, I'm gonna try to dig that up on set list. I found the Coachella show that I went to on set list. The two the two nights of co the two nights of Coachella that I went to, and I was like, oh yeah, I totally forgot that that I saw them too. Um so let's get back onto some of like the sort of signature like hallmarks of the indigo girls. Um, because one thing that I think they they kind of put out there right up front in their first big hit, which which in a lot of ways just in and of itself, that one song has a lot of the hallmarks of the indigo girls vibe and sound, um, is this when you when you're talking about the lyrics, is they make this direct re reference to like psychotherapy and like being in therapy. Um, I went to see the Doctor of Philosophy, you know. Um and I went to the, you know, these lyrics. Um and I think what that represents is like a willingness in their lyrics to be to be brutally honest, to to show you like the the deepest part of their of their psyche and their hearts. And then there's always that through line runs throughout like all of these albums. Um, I keep hesitating to say like all of their music because shamefully, like I fell off the map with this band. And that's one thing I really want to do after this is I'm gonna start I'm gonna start working my way through all their albums. Because I I know that they're not gonna be the same as these for me, but I think within those records, and they've made a lot of albums over the years, there's gonna be some great nuggets in there. So I'm gonna start doing that. Um but certainly through these albums, that's a big through line. This like this like very self-reflective, introspective vibe to a lot of their songs and lyrics, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um another thing. Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02Uh I was gonna say I did I did just do a quick Google search. Friday, April 21st, 1995, at Merriweather Post Pavilion. Uh, there was like an Earth Day show, okay? And it was Collective Soul, Letters to Cleo, Natalie Merchant, Toad the Wet Sprocket, and They Might Be Giants. It was Natalie Merchant. It was Natalie Merchant that came out and did the show. As soon as I saw They Might Be Giants, I'm like, I guarantee you were at the show.
SPEAKER_00Does it say with with Michael Stipe?
SPEAKER_02Uh no, it doesn't. It doesn't say specifically. It was April 1995. And it was a benefit concert for Earth Day. But I can't get her ex I can't get her, no one's ever put it on the scene.
SPEAKER_0095 just seems too late for that show, the one that I'm thinking of. See if there was like an Earth Day concert there in the years prior. Uh I'll look it up sometime. That's the one that popped up. Um another another through line I find uh the the South, songs of the South, being from Georgia, you know, of course, you know, the Southland in the springtime is just absolute classic. Um and then also uh Nashville from from rites of passage, you know, like they're very, very tied in with the a Southern a Southern sound, which is just interesting because in a lot of ways, like the South is not really associated with being like too friendly to lesbians, you know.
SPEAKER_02No, but they are very into where they came from, and it's important very much. But I tell you what, the thing, the thing that about that song, about Southland in the springtime, is it's like every time I hear that song, I can literally envision myself being on a tour bus with them and her just like looking out the window writing that song, you know, dirty from the you know, from the diesel fumes, drinking coffee black. I mean, it's just like incredible imagery, yes, and a picture storytelling.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's just amazing. Which is another through line their lyrics, like the storytelling. Like they have some songs that are are are very storyteller-y, like, like even closer to fine in in a way, you know, it's it's telling a story. I stopped by a bar at 3 a.m., you know, to seek solace in a bottle. You know, there's there's there's despondency, there's there's despair, there's hopelessness, but there's also but there's also hopefulness.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they talk about you know the the jadedness of of LA. You know, they talk, I mean, there's there's so many different places that they that they go, you know what I mean? And it's it's such a you it's such a lived experience, you know what I mean. These are things that you wouldn't like it is it's it's like they're cutting themselves open and like exposing their their soft insides to you and you know in the most you know beautiful way possible. I mean, because it's like I mean some of these songs are just you know they're gut-wrenching odes to you know to the to lost love, to love that you know just it's there's so many different things.
SPEAKER_00And I mean, you it even when you go back to Indigo Girls, I mean it really started there on that record. I mean, you look at blood and fire, I mean, like a a contemplation of suicide, being right there on the edge, you know, like I mean, just like so, so deep, just soul bearing. Um another uh another thought that occurred to me, um, and sort of a through line um what was it? Um oh like this this deep sort of spiritual tie to the natural world and to not only to the natural world but to like native culture. Yeah, I mean we see that yeah, we see that in the imagery. I mean, nomads, Indian saints. Um, and the song that I'm trying to the record is or the song escapes me that uses that lyric. Um, what is it? I wish I was a nomad, an Indian or a saint. That's that's in World Falls, World's Falls World Falls. Yeah, that that that song is just incredible. World Falls. Like I said earlier, it's got that one moment, you know, I woke up in the middle of a dream, scared the world was too much for me. It is just like, God, that is just so the perfection that line gets me every time.
SPEAKER_02Oh, dude. Um, and then like in the third, but there's so many of them. There's so many of them that I have that effect on me. You know, that that really gritty part of you know the vocal when, you know, in pushing the needle too far when she's like pushing the needle too far. And it's like it slows down just a little bit, just so you get that like that slight bit of emphasis, a little grit in the voice. Like it's yeah, there's so like it's so complex.
SPEAKER_00Have you listened to the um get on the bus, y'all version of that song?
SPEAKER_02I'm sure I have at some point. I didn't this week.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, go go back to that one for a revisit. That's that's uh a really, really good one. Um yeah, that whole first record, uh, well, the whole um Nomads, Indians, and Saints record, um, just so much good stuff. I mentioned uh you and me of the Ten Thousand Wars. Like I had that song had me in tears like yesterday listening to it.
SPEAKER_02It's just it gives it it paints just an image that you you of that kind of conflict that you have with people that are significant in your life. You know, be it a spouse, be it a girlfriend, boyfriend, be it a mother, a father. There's just so many ways that you can interpret that that relationship and the feeling of that, you know, that disconnection that you can have with with an individual. And it's and they paint that picture in a in a way to do it.
SPEAKER_00And how how like one thing it's like how one thing can mean two different things, you know what I mean? Like, like what is that thing right there? Oh, that's our bed. Oh, that thing that I have to make every day, versus that's our bed where we lie together, you know, a bed to be made and a bed to lie in, like perfection, you know? It's like eight words. Um, and they are so adept at giving us that. Um another thing though is like they can rock. You know what I mean? Like they can rock out, like when you get to the end of pushing the needle too far, the queen that closed the door, tick-a-tac-a family that people tick. Like they they contain multitudes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, and they also have like the upbeat, the upbeat songs like hammer and a nail and um uh joking and joking.
SPEAKER_00Like joking is such a little like pop, just like nugget. You know what I mean? Like joking is just it's so fun. It's just like it's confetti.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and like, you know, I I I'm a big fan of of Chicken Man. I love that song and adore it. It's on my list. Where it's where it's like, you know, um it starts out with that with that dead dog on a highway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, no, it starts off with the a cappello. Ah, only child. That's bold. Um, yeah, that's a that's a killer song. And when it gets to the chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga part, like it's so good. Like you just get you just get into that song, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, and you get that harmonica, and it's like that in that that harmonica to me is like a train.
SPEAKER_00That you get the chugga chugga chugga with it with the harmonica, it's so good. And I am sure I am not the first or this will be the last critic to point out the fact that around this time, another song by another alt-rock artist that was a little quirky in its way. That was something man came out. You know what song I'm referring to?
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00Spoon man, come together with your plan. Save me. I'm together with your plan. You know what I mean? Like it's got those two songs, they're kind of living in the same world in a way. I'm curious as to which one came out first, because I guarantee you those two records came out within a year of each other. I'll have to I'll have to look that up. You'd have to Google that one. Because when I think back on my time the time of life when I was into those two records, I'm pretty sure that was like there's like that's gotta be right around like 94. I bet you both those records came out.
SPEAKER_02I also have like a really deep connection with rites of passage because I was super into that song when I first started playing guitar, and like we had some situation at home where like I don't know, Andy and I were like fighting a lot or something like that, and I had like taken up guitar, and some I don't know if it was a therapist or somebody had like suggested that Andy try to like teach me to play to you know to play, and we only ever did this one time, really, and it the song that I chose for him to teach me was Romeo and Juliet. And like I had him teach me how to play that song, and you know, so I mean I have like deep seated memories of this music, like that is part of my musical foundation, like all the way at the bottom. And you know, so I just there's I have such a deep love for this. And the sad thing is I've never been able to get a significant other to like enjoy this with me to where I can like share it with someone, and because you share with me. I know, I know, I know, and I and I do, and we are. I'm gonna share, I'm gonna share one right back at you when you're done. Go ahead. No, I mean that's it. There's a lot about that song, too, like that is is kind of cool that I I didn't know. Like, A, it's the only cover on these two these two albums.
SPEAKER_00And what a choice, what a choice for a cover, man. Like, and and I didn't know I wasn't aware of that song before the indigo girls covered it. Like, I'm not a big knoffler fan, so well, and here's the thing about it is that it is very much its own.
SPEAKER_02If you listen to the original version of this song, it sounds nothing like their cover of it. Like they truly make this song their own. Well, and by they, you mean she.
SPEAKER_00She's one of the songs. This is one of those moments on like so many on these records where one one woman, one guitar.
SPEAKER_02The killers covered this song, and it sounds like a like a like a carbon copy of of the Dire Straits version of this song. And it's a super cool video. And I'm and and I there will I will put links in the show notes to some of this stuff that I have. Um, some of the videos that I that I had um that I used researching, and I'll put a couple of these older other versions of these songs, but the music, the original music video for this song is the 80s glory, and it's amazing. But you know, going back to, you know, there's so many songs on this album that I play and that I have that I have even like in the last probably 10 years, 15 years, where I've taught myself another song from these records.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I I in a in a similar way, you know, have have this like um kind of like gut level DNA uh affinity for for this group and especially like these records. Um, you know, closer to fine came when when I had shortly after I'd started playing guitar and I knew how to play a few things, and I was like a G C D guy, and here comes Closer to Fine, and it's like as G C D of a song as ever was written. And it's got a it's got a couple other little kickers, but you could get both of them on a G C D.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you can you can you can get the party started with that guitar, and and it's and it's it's real simple, it's iconic, but it's so simple the way it just steps up, and then you move the other finger, and you know, and then you it's just it's very, very simple. It's a beginner guitar part in a way. It's fantastic, it's it's perfect, but it's a beginner guitar part, and at that moment in time I was able to learn that. And this is also around the same time the record came out in like 91, I think, um, or 92, and uh no, came out in 91. Um this is right after I'm uh or a couple years after I had that experience I talked about with like learning harmonies for the school play, and I'd done it in college when I when I did radio hour. So I was in the harmony, harmonizing space. I had done it a little bit with my with my college band. Um, and this song comes out and like it's it's tailored, it's it's tailor-made for harmonizing. And so I would try to rope anybody I could into singing this song with me because I was able to learn the harmony parts. I mean, there the the harmonies, like we were saying earlier, are so clearly delineated with these with these women. Their voices are so unique and they they work so well together that like you just memorize these harmony parts, whether you like it or not, you know, by osmosis. And so if I could get somebody to just sing the melody part, I could easily just rock the harmony part. And I too can remember playing that song with our brother Andy and singing the harmonizing, like just crushing the harmony in that song, you know, like no problem back in the day. So very, very deep-seated for me. I also remember doing with you know, people sitting around the sitting around the uh the the ring at night doing uh kid fears, because that's got the great Michael Stike part. I mean, you can get a three-part harmony going at the end of that song. So um deep DNA stuff. Uh, I'm enjoying the heck out of this conversation, and we're gonna keep it going. I think we've leaned more towards nomad, so we'll talk more specifically about the stuff on rights when we come back. Stay with us. Please check out our other show, Beyond the Slipstream, a weekly podcast about pro cycling, pro cycling, and oh, did I mention pro cycling or kind of obsessed? Search and subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube, or click the link in the show notes. All right, we are back, and we are talking indigo girls. Um, so their biggest hit was Galileo, far and away, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I believe so, yes. Um that or I mean closer to fine had a huge resurgence with the Barbie movie.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's true. That's true. But I would like I would say like it there. During at the time hit during the heyday, it was that was kind of the the nay dear.
SPEAKER_02Um I mean, I've heard Galileo in the in the friggin' grocery store.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02Like in the last like 10-15 years.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally ubiquitous. It's like part of the canon now. It's like one of the great songs. Um, and again, you know, so many of the hallmarks in there. I mean, just it's Galileo. You know what I mean? They're talking about these very these very college level subjects, you know, and getting into the mythology and and all that kind of stuff. I mean, an absolute banger, but you know, that's just one of among many songs on this record that were just so good.
SPEAKER_02Something about that song that I didn't know until this week, they play that song in two different keys, like two different capo sets. So they're not.
SPEAKER_00Oh, like the two of them, the two of them are in different capo. Okay. Isn't that wild? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm sure m many bands do that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure they do, but it's just it I didn't realize they did it. So I it was just it was something for for me that I did not realize.
SPEAKER_00Um and it's just such a catchy earworm. I've performed that song live on a couple of occasions. Um I love it. What are what are some of your other faves on on the record?
SPEAKER_02Ghost is the one of my favorite songs, maybe of all time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's incredible.
SPEAKER_02The imagery of you know the Mississippi's Mighty, but it starts in Minnesota. Yeah. Yeah, you know, at a place where you could walk with five steps down. And I guess that's how you started, like a pinprick to my heart. At this point, it could cuts right through me, and I start to drown. And that's like oh, oh my god, dude.
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, that's that is some incredible, incredible lyrics.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so that one stands out to me. My other one, which I think is maybe the best love song of you know of my life, is Love Will Come To You.
SPEAKER_00Another one. First you're you just hit the first two on my list.
SPEAKER_02Um, Love Will Come To You is uh is all is the the most recent song of theirs that I have learned to play. And it's man, it's just it's such a good song when it it's the the that paw the pause of fear upon my upon your chest. Only love can soothe that beast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's that's one of a handful of songs that they have that are in a way like they're almost like hymns. You know what I mean? Like, like that is a a hymn of spirituality, that song. Um Yep, absolute banger. Now you've mentioned Chicken Man already. I have to give a little love to Airplane. I absolutely adore that song with every fiber of my being.
SPEAKER_02Um I never could have read My Horoscope or The Fortune on a Bubblegum Strip.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and it's like and the to me, the best lyric is where it's like, what a great thing to read before getting on an airplane. Like it's and it's we're right back, we're right back into these hallmark images, you know, like anxiety fear, anxiety, um, you know, therapy, uh, all that stuff. It's all just like totally wrapped up there. They're working with um the Roche sisters in there, who also do the backing vocals on Virginia Wolf. Um, and it's got this very the the the harmonies that those women do are very like 1940s girl group, like the Andrews sisters, you know, not like not like 60s Supremes. It's got like a real Andrews sister sisters kind of quality that gives it a very old-timey feel, that song, and yet it's about air travel, you know what I mean? Like this modern, this modern thing, which is just like such a such a nice uh such a nice turn. Um what what else what else is on your list?
SPEAKER_02Um, I mean, I I could talk very well about the last three songs. Cedar Tree hits me in the fields in a big way. Um after dad passed away, like that was a song that that meant a lot to me. Like helped me think.
SPEAKER_00a lot it's a very um it's just one of those songs it's it's you know about loss and you know tragedy but also you know it's not just loss of of love but it's it's it's loss of pain and there's there's a lot of different ways you can you can take a lot of different things you can take from that song in different ways at different times and you know it's it's just you know it's just a tremendous song let it be me is is awesome wait wait wait wa hold on hold on let me let me get in my cedar tree sure stuff so I agree with everything you said and also like that's that that song is a really good example of something else that I find the indigo girls be really good at which is very very effectively using other musicians um some of their songs just have the best like violin part or the best whatever part the best little ukulele or the best mandolin or something like that and if you'll recall the end of this song has got a beautiful outro with like violins and some great percussion work and stuff like that. It's absolutely and it's it's it's musicality to match the level of the lyrical songwriting you know what I mean and it's it's also very inventive song arranging and structuring um you know as simple quote unquote as a lot of these songs are like these two are maestros like they can write some complex you know very avant garde kind of stuff I think that it's I think that when you if you look at it only on the surface you could look at it and be like this is just simple this is just simple you know you could you could you could write it off as just that it's just simple acoustic folk rock anybody could do this but it's not and that's anything that's the thing that that I think it's kind of like I I relate the indigo girls in in music to cycling in sports.
SPEAKER_02It's a thing that you if you're not super into it you're not going to get it like it's just not for you because there's so many different levels of nuance in their music that if you just take it for that one song by the Inde Girls that you heard you heard that you heard closer to fine or you heard Galileo and that's all you know about them you've completely missed the bus man you are you you it it ain't for you and like while those songs are great they're not the best songs that they have and they don't give you what makes their music so infectious and from a musician standpoint it's where you know because I've tried to learn how to play them some of them are very simple to learn how to play some of them are fucking impossible. You know what I mean it's like so it's it's not it's not exactly what you see on the surface and I think that's what makes it so good. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's stuck with me so long into my adult life. I mean there's plenty of music that I love that I haven't listened to in 20 years. All right these are two records that if I want to just like get into a zone or I want to feel good or I just want something that's not heavy it's not light it's not rap it is a these are go-to records for me you know in certain situations and I know every word I know every movement and you know they mean so much to me and it it they you know they get that serotonin in my brain going and and make me comfortable and feel safe and there's just there's just something about it man. There's something about these two records that is just so goddamn good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah um one thing I I find like there's definitely a an another yet another through line with these women um in these songs is is an an a a nod to Americana um there's something very very American about these records um they they lean into into geography in a way you know we talked about like the Southland in the springtime and then there's Nashville um which I want to talk about a little bit there's all kinds of stuff but but but then also they take it they they can take that to a um to like a a more metaphorical level like the land of Canaan you know what I mean um and Nashville in particular uh to me it just like that's a Bruce Springsteen song you know everything about that song the way that song plays out I mean it starts off with the heavy drums and then right in with the right in with the harmonica I mean I could I could absolutely just sing see Bruce Springsteen doing that song. So of course I had to Google up has Bruce Springsteen ever covered an indigo girls song in concert and uh the AI gave me no Bruce has never publicly covered an indigo girls song they've mixed it together in various settings but he's never covered anything and then it was like however it does go the other way um um Amy I believe it was Amy uh appeared on a record from no it was Emily not Amy um on a record from January of 2019 called Born to Uke and it's a bunch of artists covering Bruce Springsteen songs and of all of the artists on this record Emily was the one who covered Born to Run. So if you like go and hunt down Born to Run the Emily Salyers ukulele cover from the album Born to Yuke uh it's kind of good actually but like that song is just so Americana you know what I mean just like just like just just rock and roll you know it's it's it's being on tour it's the road you know it's the South it's you know I mean but that's the thing man it's like it's so archetypal you know and they they paint it they paint that picture so well and they you you know the more you listen to it the more you can be inside of that music and really like see what they are trying to describe to you and what you know and put you in that place.
SPEAKER_02And like if you think about Nashville I mean it's like you know we that song it makes you feel that it's got a little bit of a country twang to it. It's a little more country and a little less folk and you know it's they do that through in through different songs and they you know different songs have different vibes and you know it's it's very very interesting how they marry those different worlds and those different themes and how they bring it you know bring it together and and oh man I just just enamored by these two ladies. Would you would you say there was a progression from indigo girls to nomads to rites of passage absolutely absolutely like to me to me because now I listened to rites of passage before I listened to nomads like one led me to the other like I had heard the the first or the second album and then I really got into it with rites of passage and I mean I played the hell out of that record and that record led me to Nomad like I I because of my love of that one I went and I I had the other two and I got the one that bridged the gap and then listened to that one.
SPEAKER_00And I mean these are all these are all things I had on C D of my own you know at such yeah different you know different points in my in my life I think it's uh I think it's interesting when you go from indigo girls to nomads Indian Saints and you talk about the the opener you know you got closer to fine then you've got hammer and a nail and like those two songs have a very very similar vibe you know what I mean it's like a a a beat kind of you know what I mean just just just a good a good like forward momentum in both of those songs. Hammer and nail is a little bit of more positivity you know like um but then you get to uh you get to to rites a passage and start with three hits and it's very it's very like rhythm based and not that like high energy you know but it's but it's got an energy to it in a different way though. Yes. It's like they're they're starting to to s like sort of strip down the idea of an opener in a way. Poetry in motion baby yeah exactly um so s how about the relationship between let's see between the songs um history of us and then wait from history of us we go to on nomads I would say it's um the girl with the weight of the world in her hands oh yeah and then on rites of passage it's it's gotta be Virginia Wolf.
SPEAKER_02Virginia Wolf yeah like like like what's what's what's up with those three songs I think they are telling us they're you know they they tell they tell a story they each tell a story you know of a woman in different you know phases in their life and and about a woman's life in a perspective that you can't and you know I think one of the things with them being you know you know I think they've both gone on record. It's funny because because they've both been in relationships with men and women but they are and they don't they don't say that they are I mean while they are well they're both married to women now. Yes but they're married to women but I'd I'd literally read that they neither of them like completely I define themselves as you know lesbian. You know what I mean like it there's you mean they're on a spectrum like every human being on the planet some there's some amount of fluidity to how they view themselves but they do a wonderful job of painting a picture at least for me as a man of you know they have gotten me in touch with my inner woman in a way that you know that has made me a better person in life but I think those types those songs are the doorway into that for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah they are certainly adept at expressing a feminine interiority that you don't necessarily get from a lot of you know popular music.
SPEAKER_02I agree I agree which uh is to their credit and part of the reason why they are so beloved um great couple of albums I have two more I have two more questions that I had I had had jotted down in my notes go ahead all right in out of the three all right let's take the three albums how which how do you rank those three albums for me personally it probably goes my number one would be right then probably indigo girls then nomads in the insanes God that's that is so hard I think I think I would probably go nomads first actually but that's the beauty that's the beauty of opinion man well okay so so you said that you you came to rites of passage first yes and then went back to the other two for me well no no no no no I I originally heard the self-titled album the indigo girls album that's my first exposure but then you guys you or Andy or somebody was very into that rites of passage album and so when it came out I got into it because of Galileo specifically Galileo like was my was my you know my gateway drug into that album got you know completely into that that then goaded me into going back and listening to to to um Nomad's Indian Saint.
SPEAKER_00Well I think the truth of it for me is that if you took all of the songs from all three of these records and jumbled them all up and then randomly chose eleven from each one and you know made it made three albums that way they would be just as good in a way like they could be one big triple album. I think for me I would probably Nomads Indians and Saints probably means the most to me because I was very into the first the the the indigo girls album um and Nomads is one of those records that I can remember being so damn primed for like I knew it was coming out. I was waiting for it to come out and it comes out and it just it completely disappoint yes it did not disappoint it completely filled fulfilled everything I was looking for and a couple of the songs just like I don't know they just like touched me so deeply um and I feel like they are still they're still in my subconscious when I'm writing music I feel like there's things that come out of me that go back to that without me even knowing it um but yeah hard to uh hard to play superlatives with these three records what's your other question so what is your favorite song from each from from indigo girls favorite song I I think I would I think it would be Blood and Fire I don't know Kid Fears man Kid Fears is like yeah it's Kid Fears for me on the first one. It's incredible it's incredible um from Nomads this is gonna be so hard as well um I can't make this decision I refuse to make this decision can I give you can you make it if you if I give you two like I have to pick from one of these two no no no I'm saying pick oh if I can I pick my top two okay I'll try to pick my top two if you can here are all the s these are the songs that are that are in the in the running for me welcome me because the of the glory of the harmony of the chorus of that song um world falls because of the because of that because of the the the the the first half of the second verse um you and me of the 10,000 wars because of the just just crushing devastation that does to me emotionally and pushing the needle too far because of because I learned how to play that song when it first came out and I have always loved playing that song playing and singing that song that's a that's a song that is just like built for performance for that's why you got to go and listen to that live performance. So it's between those it's between those four and you and you hear the reasons I gave you for each of those they're all completely different. You know what I mean? Like one's because of the harmony one's because of the arrangement one's because of the emotion and one's because of the playability Southland in the springtime I think it's Southland.
SPEAKER_02I think that Southland has one of the I just think that it it is one of the most picture perfect like songs if you want to see an image inside your head like that is a song that will absolutely paint a picture inside of your brain um and then the other one for me is the girl with the weight of the world in her hands. I just that the those this is it's it's such an amazing song it gets in your feels it gets you know and it really really really just is such a just a great produced song in every way it's it's it's just stripped enough but it still has a quality that it it's bigger than what it is. I don't know man I don't know how to describe describe it words words don't words don't do it justice. You really gotta listen to it I think if I had to pick one I'll go ahead I'm gonna say world falls and from rites of passage and this one's tougher for this one is much tougher for me. I it's for me it comes down to the to the first two songs that that we we started talking to when we came back from the break it's it's ghost and love will come to you like those two songs are just yeah I I I'm with you on those too if I had to pick one I'd say ghost lyrically I will give it to ghost yeah man I don't know God those are too great Love Will Come to you that's a hymn yeah that's a ghost is just a hymn ghost it just the the that like I think I feel like this with ghost every person that's ever had their heart broken can can feel that song. You know what I mean like it is it is a way it is it is a very visceral song for you know that longing that you have for another human being another soul and and the mark that that person can leave on you and the void that they can leave within their absence. And it's just yeah unbelievable unbelievable songs if you if you are listening to this you need to listen to these records you sh do not go to your to whatever is comes after without hearing this music because it is utterly beautiful in every way agreed couldn't agree more okay so on Spotify um which song do you think has more listens closer to fine or Galileo?
SPEAKER_00Closer to Fine wait wait wait wait wait wait before I before I I tell you the answer one of them has 79 million plays and one of them has 19 million plays you want to go with closer to fine I do you are correct you are correct sir the only reason I go with that is because of the Barbie of it all I think before Barbie Galileo probably had it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah it'd be fun to go back in time to right before Barbie and see exactly where it was at because again you're talking about songs that came out way after digital music way after the Spotify platform started and absolutely it would have gotten juice from that movie. It's all over that movie it's like in two it's like two or three times they play that song.
SPEAKER_00I don't even remember it oh yeah they like play it in the car like when they're driving in the car between the two worlds or whatever all right I'm I'm asking right I'm asking the your AI lab how many plays on Spotify did Closer to Fine by the Inigo Girls have before the Barbie movie and it's really having a hard time with this one. It said before Barbie premiered in July of twenty three Closer to find had roughly sixty three million streams on side of Spotify so it still would have beat the crap out of it still would have beat it. Interesting um What a fun episode. What a fun band. What an awesome band. They're incredible. I'm definitely going to be listening to more of their records in the upcoming weeks and months. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02I uh maybe we should pick two albums. Maybe we should pick two albums that neither of us are familiar with and come back and do this again with an entirely like 20 years separated from you know 30 years separated from from when they came out and and like do this again with like to bring it from a because like right now, all these records, we're bringing all of our history with us. If we do it to fresh takes on music that we've never listened to, or you know, haven't really listened to, maybe we get something different out of maybe we come back and revisit Indigo Girls again, you know, it's a year from now.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um I'm down. I'd be down to do that. Uh there is a handwritten and signed lyric sheet for closer to fine, handwritten by Emily Saliers, uh that was sold on Julian's online auctions. Um it had an estimated price of six hundred to eight hundred dollars. Um, how much do you think it's sold for? I don't know. A thousand and forty dollars. But I don't know if it's like the actual lyrics because I'm looking at the picture of it and it just looks like she like wrote out the lyrics with a sharpie marker and said, Here, sell this. Um what a great band. This is a lot of fun. Thanks for uh tuning in, folks, as always. Um we uh we love the indigo girls, and for my brother Justin, I'm Matt. We have been the Indigo Boys. Chow chow. Thanks, everybody. Inglorious Brothers is a Harparama production and a part of the Harparama family of podcasts. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Please like, subscribe, and follow, leave a five-star review, and most importantly, tell all your friends about us. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time. And uh, oh yeah, you can't do it.