Beatles After the Beatles S2E10

Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel

Follow us on Instagram

Subscribe to our other podcast, Beyond the Slipstream (it's about pro cycling, just fyi...)

Follow Justin's gaming life in Instagram

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's the pop culture show with Cult Classic Swagger. This is Inglorious Brothers. I'm Matt Harper, and together with my brother Justin, we dive into the deep end of the zeitgeist each week to bring you cool talk and hot takes. No genre is too specific, no topic too broad, and no rabbit hole too deep as we open our minds and enjoy each other's company. Sound good? Then let's ride.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Hello and welcome to Inglorious Brothers. I'm Justin and I'm here with my brother Matt. And on today's show, a big first for a podcast done by a couple of middle-aged and middle-class dudes in 2026. We're finally discussing the Beatles. And while I'm not about to run through a year's worth of show notes to see if we've ever even mentioned the Beatles, there's almost no way we haven't. I can say conclusively that this is the very first time that we've ever dedicated an entire episode to any topic directly related to the greatest man in all of human history. Or so they say. So today we're taking a look at two recent documentary films that happen to bear some very striking similarities, both within the filmmaking and the subject matters of the film. As well as some big, big differences on both of those accounts as well. The first one is one-to-one, John and Yoko, Kevin McDonald's 2024 examination of the lives of the famous couple in the aftermath of the Beatles breakup in the early 70s. The second is Paul McCartney Man on the Run, Morgan Neville's account of the same period of time, more or less, in the life of Paul McCartney. These are two fascinating films about the two biggest Beatles, and we'll break down the similarities and differences therein in just a moment. Stay with us. Not even Beatles music. The fact that it had no narration like blew my mind that it was essentially done through, you know, archival footage, recordings, you know. Um it's an art it's an art piece. News clips. Yeah. I mean it's it's it's just it's literally masterful how they pulled it all together and made it feel so much like a documentary. Obviously, it it's around it's kind of framed around their concert one-to-one. Um and I just it's it it gave me a perspective on this time that I guess I didn't really have. And it also um made me more sympathetic towards Yoko Ono uh in a way that I never have been in the past. Umly because I have, you know, I guess I've kind of always just gone with the general consensus of like, oh, you know, it's Yoko Ono's fault that the you know that the band broke up and and and in hearing them talk, it you know, it it what struck me is is that you know they got to a point in their lives where this thing had essentially dominated their you know young life and that you know by the time you get to this point in the 1970s when they when they decide to call it quits as the Beatles, they had grown up and they had become very different people. And and I liken it to myself in my first marriage, where I you know, uh I got married very young, I had a child very young, and by the time, you know, 12 years had passed, my wife and I had become very different people and had grown into, you know, and were wanting different things out of life. And, you know, it was it it was you know what I mean, it was more or less a foregone conclusion that it that we were kind of hanging on to it for the sake of hanging on to it and not hanging on to it because we wanted to. And I get that sense from you know, from these guys now kind of getting a little window into the time, you know, that time, you know, directly after that breakup. And it was really interesting to me to see that, you know, how much love they still had for each other. Um you know, if there was one takeaway that I had from it, it it's it's that you know, these are b these guys were like brothers. You know, they very much cared for each other even after this uh all went down. And the public perception, which is what dominates the narrative, is not necessarily what was you know truly in their hearts. And and the these films really you know gave me a new um a new perspective on on them.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Uh yeah, I um I absolutely loved both of those films, and I feel like both of them were were better for me because of the other one. Um like I watched the Blenn one first as well, and then the McCartney one and the Lennon one in retrospect, and I did go back and dig back into it a little bit after them watching the McCartney one, um, just benefited from the fact that there are just so, so, so many interesting parallels. I mean, you talked about, you know, how you got a new look at Yoko Ono and a new consideration of of the role that she played in all of this. Um, and you get that same exact thing in the McCartney film with Linda McCartney, you know, and you get this very intimate look at her. I mean, what's you know, the the the the there's so many parallels between the lives and the films um just be because of the fact that they both happen to be like the two leaders of the Beatles. And so they both had there was just constantly constant video and photography being done in their lives all the time, you know. So we get two we are these filmmakers have very rich, rich troughs to to draw from in making these movies. And then in terms of the filmmaking, I think in both instances, they they they do a really nice job of drawing from those troughs and putting together some very stylish, very artistic films um that are in and of themselves, you know, art objects in a way. Um and and there's a couple of sequences in each that I want to talk about that really just blew my mind. But I think we should start by setting up one-to-one um in a in a little bit more specifics. Um, I kind of like that they I mean, it's about the time like the Beatles have broken up, Lennon has gotten together with Yoko, and he's moving to New York. He's done with London, and he's got his mind on adventure and creativity and Yoko Ono. They're obviously very in love with each other. Um, and they're going to New York, the, the, you know, the the heart of the world, basically, the the intellectual and cultural capital of the entire world, and they're going to go insert themselves right into it. Um, and they end up putting this concert together. Um, and the the movie is about that period of time, arrival in New York, getting their apartment, and then the things that lead to this concert, and then the concert itself. Now, they they sort of play the concert footage throughout the film, but they also work some of these other timelines as the as you go throughout the film. And for me, the single most fascinating part about it uh in terms of the story was the reason for them doing the concert, which was the Geraldo Rivera report. Absolutely fascinating. Um, what did you think of that?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Um I I thought it so you know one of the things that it's it's funny as I watched it, I I realized there's so many parallels with what's going on in our world today. And it really was like, you know, it was very interesting because because it you know, it they obviously, you know, they leave England, you know, because of, you know, massive scrutiny, and you know, they were the biggest thing in the world, and and as big as we think they are here, they were even bigger there. And so they're they're just trying to live their lives, and you know, they come, you know, come across the Atlantic and and find themselves like in the middle of you know of a cause that they want to fight for, you know, and the the way that that presents itself I thought was just um was was so I I'm I struggle to find the words. Like um it is so poignant, you know what I mean, and and just so on brand for them that when they get over here that they that they really feel like you know they need to insert themselves in this in this you know predicament.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Well, and they were they were not just just artists, but they were activists. And I like that that you know Yoko Ono is in her very own right an artist and an activist, like independent of John Lennon. I think that's a big part of what drew him to her, is that like she was the real deal. Whether whether you know haters want to admit it or not, she was. I mean, she was she was doing art projects, gallery things, you know, she was uh a musician and you know, she made some very bizarre and avant-garde music, but I mean she was you know she was a feminist and a big advocate for feminine um for the feminine cause. Um, and the so when they came to New York, yes, they wanted to be creative, but they also wanted to to be activists. They knew they were very much aware of the platform that they had and they were intent to use it. And the first part of the film concerns itself with like a concert and tour they were trying to do with Bob Dylan that ultimately fell through. And it was really kind of interesting to be able to see the machinations that are like going on behind the scenes trying to make that happen and hearing them, you know, in real time, just getting frustrated with different situations and dealing with the public and getting pushback from from you know their people and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

And like, yeah, it was very interesting because there was a lot, a lot of forces pushing against what they wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so you see that you see that happen with that, and then the the Rivera thing comes in, and now a new a new idea is born. But before we get into that, I want to rewind a little bit because the filmmaker did a really, really cool uh little thing in this in this film, um, as like a kind of a framing device. So they created a replica of their actual apartment in Greenwich Village that that John and Yoko lived in. And there's a million photographs from there because, like I said, they were constantly being photographed. So, like the public, we as the public in 2026, we know what that apartment looked like. We know exactly what it looked like because there's 10,000 pictures that were taken inside of there. And the filmmaker took all that archival material and they built a set, they recreated it, and it is so it is used so effectively. And the shot that I really, really want to call out. I didn't know that it wasn't real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They recreated it.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

I thought I legitimately thought that was just like footage they were intercutting in. I did not realize they had built the apartment.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yeah, so so so there is just an absolutely bravura uh sequence, like right in the middle of the film, when they introduced the idea that is going to lead to the concert, which is Geraldo Rivera's like 19, 1970 report on this, this like horrifying institution in uh Staten Island, I think. It was called Willowbrook, and the and the the piece that Rivera did. This was like basically like Geraldo Rivera's coming out party on the world stage. He did this thing called Willowbrook, the last great disgrace. And it's like this look at this mental institution on Staten Island that is just like abusing kids horribly. And he, a doctor whistleblower reached out to him because he was like the he was like the eyewitness news guy on the local New York station. And this doctor whistleblower that has been working at this place, like reaches out to him because it's just like he can't take anymore. He's like, somebody's got to see this. And they catch the people by surprise at the uh institution. And Robera is able to get inside there with cameras, and they're walking through this place, and you're seeing these like gruesome images that look like they're out of a horror movie. I mean, they're as bad as as look as seeing like like concentration camp footage, these naked kids like writhing around on the ground and they're in their own filth and stuff. And what is so great about the movie is that in the beginning of the movie, they have set you up, they they've they've shown you this replica of the apartment. And John and Yoko very purposefully had this big ass TV mounted on a on a table right at the foot of their bed. And they're like, We're artists and we're activists. We're going to America to New York City, and we need to plug into the consciousness of America, and we're going to do it with that television. We're going to sit in front of that television for hours and hours and hours on end, and we are going to educate ourselves about what the American culture is. And so you throughout all of this stuff that's going on, they are sitting in their bed watching culture, and the filmmakers are giving us just like this random assortment. Like they'll just like throw a TV commercial at you, and you'll see like a news report, and you'll see something from another TV show, and you'll see footage from a talk show. And so they're they're like very artfully giving you this insight into like what is happening in the zeitgeist and all the stuff that that Lennon and and Ono are taking in. And in this incredible sequence, they show you the beginning of the Geraldo Rivera report. It's like you're you're watching it as you would have seen it on TV there, and you and they give you like two, three minutes. And then suddenly you're in Lennon and Yoko's Yoko's apartment, and it's panning across their bed very slowly as you're still hearing the report going on. You're hearing the testimony, the doctor talking about what's going on. And ultimately it comes across the bed and the shot lands on the TV. And so now you can see the bed and the TV in the shot. And then all of a sudden, jump cut, and you're seeing a black and white photograph from the exact same angle of the exact same TV in the bed, but John and Yoko are now in the bed, and you can see they're just like watching the TV, like, and that's literally the moment that the idea is hatched to put on this concert. It's incredible. I mean, that's like that's gonna be on my top 10 list of like sequences. Well, I guess this movie's too old to do it for like a you know, like a year-end thing, but I was so blown away by that sequence. I mean, it was so artfully done, just incredible, really, really incredible. Um, and there was just silence, just silence. And then the next thing that you get after that, I put it in my notes. Um the the the uh it pans across. You get the photo of Lennon, he's holding the guitar. There was like a guitar on the bed, like in the recreation. Now he's holding the guitar, and the last thing you hear the doctor say is their life is just hours and hours of endless nothing to do, no one to talk to, just an endress, endless life of misery and filth. And then the next thing you hear is Yoko's voice voiceover. Um, she's talking to somebody afterwards. She's been affected by this film, and she says, after seeing that film, we we just couldn't say anything, it was too much. And they're like, we got to do something for these kids. Let's call Rivera. They set up this concert, Rivera's in there with them. Like, who knew Geraldo Rivera had a relationship with John Lennon and Yoko Ono and created this concert? I mean, it's it's stunning. Absolutely, yeah. I just I'm learning about all this. It was just, it was so, so well done, I thought. Um and when you contrast that with like what Paul McCartney was getting up to and around this same time, it's it's yeah, it's it's it's wild. It's quite fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

The well, you know, I think the activism part of it is is so important for right now because you know, the the parallel that for me was you know, here are these two, you know, these two activists that are trying to navigate through an ultra-conservative, you know, world. And it, you know, kid it's we are literally living in an ultra-conservative world right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

And yeah, we've felt it's we've had a conservative revival. And you're you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

And you know, I thought it was really interesting to the way that they cut in the music. I thought that that it was very masterful the way that they the the song choices and absolutely you know, and what they did the um the the rendition of come together was so good, man. Like and and like and the message of that song is just you know, is it's it's crazy. I you know, and the Beatles are one of those bands too, where it's like, you know, I know so much about their music and the musicality of their music, but you know, I I didn't know as much about their lives. And when I say that this this made me more sympathetic to Yoko Ono, it's when she starts explaining about you know what she went through and the hate and the vitriol that was chucked at her throughout this entire time. And the fact that like she still she still holds her head up and like wants to help people and you know, like I it gave me such a newfound respect for her. Like I I just I guess I didn't I guess I didn't realize I guess I didn't ever put together like how tough it must have been for her to be in this situation.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Well, in the film Lennon describes her as quote, an independent, eloquent, outspoken, creative genius. And he says that when he met her, he started waking up. You know, I mean she she she she is an absolutely fascinating person. She's she's totally mysterious, and yet she's she's intellectual, she's a firebrand, she's outspoken, she's radical, she's a supermodel, she's gorgeous. I mean, like she's a total artist, I mean, just an incredible person.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

But think about the fact that like prior to her coming into his life and waking him up, that's just such a great, such a great way of putting it. He was in a bubble. Okay, he was in a bubble in in at the at the top of the world, you know, where they were, you know, they could literally do no wrong. And you know, it's very music, music during that time was very different because, you know, it was the recording that made the money. That you know, it was it was, you know, record, promote, record, record, promote, record. And there wasn't, it's not like it is today where it's record, tour, relax, record. All right. It was, you know, to keep the to keep the the train rolling, they needed more records. Like the records were the important thing back then because records is what made the money.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah, but I think I think they were a little bit above that. I mean, when the Beatles were making were making um their final album, um, they were making albums, like they had transitioned from singles mode to albums mode. Like, no, no, I don't mean that but they had achieved so much success that they could be, they could just make the stuff that they wanted to make.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Well what I'm what I mean is there wasn't these big spaces in between the records where they were doing year-long world tours, okay, and then taking taking another half a year off because they'd just been on the road for night for 18 months. All right. They would they would make a record, they would promote that record, and then they would to go back into the studio to make another record. Right. Because that's what back then what the record companies needed.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

So what's your point as it pertains to like Johnny Bray?

SPEAKER_01 22:12

It's clear to me that like they were burnt out on that on that no on that notion. And so when she comes in, he's living inside of this bubble of we're doing this, we're doing that, we do this, we do that, we do this, do that. And they're probably not up on you know the world events because again they're the biggest thing in the world. Everybody's kowtowing to them all the time. Everybody's you know taking you know they're they're being driven here. They're this that they're not really you know they're not in touch with what's really going on. And so you're right she's the fire brand. She's the thing she's the spark that that that ignites the fire inside of him. And you know if you want to if people want to say that like oh she's the reason they broke up and it's like well no she's not the reason they broke up she's the reason that John Lennon evolved.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

All right she's the reason she is what what started she is what you know she's the chrysalis of his of his you know his caterpillar becomes she helped him become what he wanted to become you know exactly um he uh shoot what was I gonna say well you mentioned um the uh the performances I did want to call out a couple of sequences uh that were intercut with the performances um first of all once once they had teamed up with Rivera and got this concert going they created an event in Central Park for the for the kids um they got I get they got a bunch of money allocated to to revamp that place and and uh to get more personnel in there um and then they they showed him performing Imagine uh over the kids at the um going to the park and having all the fun in the central park and everything um he did a really cool ad lib when he gets to the brotherhood of man he's like a brotherhood and sisterhood of man and the whole place like just erupted.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

He changed the lyrics on Come Together too.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah yeah yeah and then the footage of the mom saying goodbye to her kid and the kid getting on the bus and the mom walking away was absolutely heartbreaking like so intense just incredible.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

What did you think of Yoko's song the song that she performed I'm getting to it.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

So that was the one that they did when all over that really like grainy black and white footage when they went to the feminist concert uh conference up in up in Harvard they went up to Harvard and she did that song looking over from my hotel window um describing like just in in absolute just raw emotion like her feelings at the age of 39 her relationship to Lennon her place in the world as an artist her struggles with suicidal thoughts I mean like she's a freaking stone cold artist. Incredible yeah incredible gave me such a newfound respect for her dude like I was yeah like I could feel myself there and it's and justifies that with like that rock and roll song she did where she's just like that's the stuff that people hated about her but like even that stuff is good.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Yeah because it's got purpose you know but yeah it's to me the the the whole like you know the Nixon of it all and and what they were going through at that time and it it does you know I will say that it give you know it's like it gives me hope because there are so many things that that are similar about what was going on then that's going on now. And it you know I I have to say that you know especially with with this past weekend with the No Kings thing and eight million people standing in the streets you know and and you know touting that we don't want to fall into this you know fascist you know autocracy. Like it just it does give me hope man like you see that that that we've been pulled back from the brink of this type of shit before. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

All right let's uh um I I got I got a couple more things I want to shoe on a shoe warn in here real quick. The um the give piece a chance sequence is great and you get to see Stevie Wonder singing give piece a chance uh with a bunch of with a bunch of A listers on stage and there's like a quick cut in there of like some kind of weird art art uh performance piece that Yoko was doing.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

And then I was really how about the museum thing where like people were like allowed to touch it and on all that's what I'm talking about and then it would okay and then it would change she was and she was naked she was naked too like she people were allowed to touch her.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

That's crazy. Which which reminds me of another another like art piece. I don't know if we ever discussed it on the show but there was a recent art piece where a woman like a female artist like stood naked in a gallery and allowed people to abuse her and it was like it got out of hand. Anyways um the uh they they hit us at the end of the movie with like um first of all I was hoping they would that we get to see them like making the transition to the the Dakota hotel which is like where they famously lived for the next several years after that they they were in Greenwich Village for a little over a year I believe um I'm gonna include a link to a different video about their apartment at the Dakota which I think I may have mentioned on a show a couple of weeks ago um but I love that they they give us a little piece from an interview where they ask each of them how would you like to be historically remembered and they're the both of their answers are so good and so them Yoko says she thinks about it she says John and I lived loved and died like so great. You know what I mean? We lived we loved we died that that's how I want to be remembered and John says he goes uh just as two lovers you know like end of story yeah it's just so simple like such a simple guy so great so great they give you a couple of title cards at the end filling us in on the next couple of big events of their lives uh the concert raised a million and a half Nixon resigned and the couple attended his the hearings on his misdeeds uh Lennon learns that he's not going to get deported um Sean O'No Lennon who figures in a beautiful way in the McCartney movie uh is born and then roll credits it ends on a positive they let us know that Yoko was finally reunited with her estranged daughter years later like 14 years after John's death a great film. I definitely thought the superior of the two films but I like the McCartney one as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

It was the the McCartney film is a much more straightforward documentary. You know what I'm saying? It's it's it is definitely more what you would expect from a film like that. Whereas the other one you were absolutely right was very artistic in that sense. Um so man on the run um essentially starts pretty much dire at the same point directly after the Beatle breakup when you know uh Paul instead of going to the to the US and isolating he went to Scotland and bought a you know bought a farm in Scotland and decided to isolate himself in Scotland. Um and you know more or less again another you know another case of a man finding his way you know what I mean and and and you know how do I how do I come out of being the you know in the biggest band in the world in in history you know at the time and you know how how do you make peace with that and move on to the next thing and be in love with the woman you love and have privacy and have a life. And it was very interesting that you know that that's where they you know how they chose to start it and it it makes you know Paul it's sorry go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Paul was Paul was desperate for normalcy after the maelstrom of the Beatles whereas John Lennon was like no no I'm still I'm still brimming with energy and I'm gonna dive even deeper into the public eye in New York City in the you know in the center of the universe um it's just interesting that these two like huge creative forces chose such such different ways to go although although Paul was splitting his time between the the the the west of Scotland and his you know beautifully appointed townhouse in London. So but you're right it was it is a much more conventional documentary. First of all it's got narration throughout from Paul McCartney now they never actually show they never cut to him like speaking it's it's all just the narration from Paul and a few others I believe um this movie we should say is directed by Morgan Neville. He's the guy who did um 20 feet from stardom and won't you be my neighbor I think are his two biggest ones he also did the Anthony Bourdain one Roadrunner but a good documentarist uh but but yeah definitely more more conventional style not to say this movie was without its artistry there was some really really cool like visual collage work happening in this thing where they were able he was able to take still photography and assemble it and and manipulate it in such a way that it in certain places he was able to kind of recreate scenes that that have that happened but there is no footage of he was able to sort of create footage of them in a very artistic way which I think should be shouted out for sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

And you know I I thought it was neat because it what you know what's crazy is too is is you know other than a small amount of time you know Paul McCartney made one made one comment and that I was like oh he was like I'm a player I'm a playaholic which I is is you know which I thought was so was so um such a good way of putting it because music just flows through him in a way that I don't you know I'm sure that it it does with a lot of you know major musicians but you know for someone like him you know he was writing the fabric of music and you know he is the bard of this of our time that is you know weaving his his songs you know back to us you know and it and it almost it's like he can't stop it from happening. And you know the the fact that he like wanted his wife to be a part of that with him even though she wasn't traditionally like a musician or whatever it like I just it spoke to his character in such a way that he was like he's like no no no no no he's like I I need to be a musician but I want you to go on this journey with me as well.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

And I thought that was such a Yeah I I don't know I don't I don't have quite the same take on that as you do that particular thing. I think you you can really start to differentiate the styles when you see what he does when he's finally released and in and on the solo um because he is doing all kinds of different stuff you know and he's digging into Scottish folk music and and stuff like that. I mean he ends up he ends up writing he ends up writing like the the the single biggest selling like Scottish song of all time what was that what was that called the thing with with the pipe band on the on the beach oh my god amazing but but wings was was was still like part of it mull mole of kin tyre the biggest selling scottish song in history um but uh yeah the the I I I think there's I think there's similarity between between Linda and Linda sort of like she was kind of like forced to become a musician musician in a way like I feel like McCartney had such a high stature that he was kind of like this is what's gonna happen. Like you're you're gonna be in my band. Because there's definitely some times when she seemed just like so uncomfortable and that woman did not have a good voice. I mean they found ways to use her voice that were okay but you know my my introduction to Linda McCartney in life came from the old uh radio show Don and Mike that we used to listen to. Yeah um they they loved to play a tape that was pulled by a board operator at a wings concert where they were playing Let It Be, you know, because after a while we learned that like McCartney was able to start playing Beatles songs again. And so they wings would do Let It Be at the end of their shows. Linda McCartney was a background vocalist and and the isolated audio and it was terrible I remember yeah they pulled her vocals and it's just an absolute disaster it's so bad. But you know when you think about it you're in the middle of the concert there's you know 12 people singing into microphones you know it's during the na na na na na na na na na na na hey jupport you know at the middle of a concert listening to the whole mix you're not going to be able to hear her anyways so it's not like she was in a recording studio trying to because like when I saw Paul McCartney do that song there was a hundred thousand people singing it with and you wouldn't have known she was singing bad anyway. Exactly exactly so that it's a little bit silly but she did get a bad rap but there were parts and times in this movie when she looked like she did not want to be there. And then when you when you also uh consider that alongside a lot of what the guys in the band were saying which is once again you know Paul Paul McCartney tried to force a lot of things he was strong willed you know he wanted wings to be just like him and have that feeling that he had before when he was with the four guys that were actually on the same level in a way you know the Beatles were kind of all on the same level even though John and Paul were kind of over George and Ringo a little bit um they were on much more of a similar level than Paul McCartney and Wings because it wasn't Paul McCartney up here and then Wings was here.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Right. Well like the Beatles were his wife and those guys like Paul McCartney was like Paul McCartney and Wings yeah exactly that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

And so you know he he kind of forced these situations because he was he was driving at something there was something driving him something he was trying to get back to um that eluded him for a long time and and I think he got a little taste of it when Wings was at their zenith when they had Band on the run and you know but but he was he was doing a lot of chasing you know um I did like how the movie opened with the way that period of time kind of opened for McCartney more than Lennon which was the whole is Paul dead thing. I like that they they got into that a little bit the whole death of Paul McCartney and that whole hoax that that was sort of perpetrated on the public and you got to see how it finally ended when a paparazzi photographer essentially tracked him down out there in Scotland. They realized it was him they show the paparazzi like grainy footage of McCartney off on his land and the paparazzi's you know a a three quarters of a mile across a couple of fields shooting this footage of him and then he apparently he got closer and McCartney got pissed off and like threw something at him threw a bucket at him or something like that. And then he realized you know that that might be a bad idea that might be a bad look and he and he went and he found the guy like at the local pub later on and said listen mate I shouldn't have thrown a bucket at you how about give me another chance it's like Tom Cruise on his like on his like recovery tour after his freak out on the on the couch at Oprah and you know so you get that famous photograph of him and the family alive and well on on on his farm there in Scotland on the cover of Life magazine it says the headline says Paul is still with us. So yeah but then you get the parallel of like Linda being this artistic woman as well and she's she is truly a great photographer she's also kind of a fashion icon in a way as as testified to by her daughter Stella McCartney who went on to become a pretty famous designer in her own right um she was completely blown away by her mother's sense of style and the outfits and the you know the design work that she was kind of putting in uh in the early days of Wings. How about the when they were showing the the photographs by Paul and the photographs by her and like how kind of similar their eye was you know yes so again like artists drawn together you know what I mean so I another great parallel um I loved it when um when and they they weren't afraid to to um kind of have John Lennon present in this documentary as well whereas I don't feel like Paul McCartney was present at all in the uh in the Lennon documentary.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

I I thought it was really interesting how they wove john lennon into this movie and how much you got the sense that you know how much love they had for each other.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

I thought it was super interesting how they you know talked about John being really supportive of his music and well but before they got there they because this documentary was so like more conventional than the other one we got a whole bit about like the the dissolution of the band the Alan Klein affair you know they had this they had gotten this manager Alan Klein and uh he was an American dude and John Lennon was over in America and they were like buddies but Paul McCartney like kind of couldn't stand the guy um they were constantly being hounded about like when are the Beatles getting back together when are the beatles getting back together like every time they went and did anything that's all anybody wanted to know which must have been just completely maddening for them but especially for Paul. Yeah it's just like it that's all anybody wanted and that's just not what any of them wanted like they they were done with the Beatles like that's all I mean McCartney says all he knew in his life at that point was he went to school and then he was in the Beatles. That's it he's done two things in his whole life you know he's like a he's like a a a mid-30s guy who is you know he's a young man still he wants to experience life you know he wants to do things and and and part of that was like just be defined by this one thing right right and you know there was a little bit of uh a little bit of sniping between them I mean one thing is that John John Lennon at least was was very honest about like what he thought about Paul's solo albums and he basically said this first album was rubbish he said it was light and it was crack was exactly what he thought um and then at some point he said the quote the in one of his songs the only thing you ever did was yesterday um and Paul McCartney definitely took that as a a slight and so yeah he had he had the song called like how do you sleep or something like that like how do you sleep at night and it was Alan Klein's idea I mean the whole thing was was kind of sad because they didn't really feel that way about each other. The outside influence right right and finally they get they get uh what's his name out of there Alan uh Alan Klein is is pushed out of the picture um and they ultimately show them finally having their the thing where they're signing off on the papers that like the Beatles are officially done like everything has been split up and we're done they got all the rights and all that kind of stuff figured out um so McCartney's up there he's making more albums he comes out with this second album Ram that just gets brutally panned um but the one person in the movie that says that he liked it Sean Ono Lennon who was so sensitive in the little bits of interview that we get from him throughout this thing um you know he's John Lennon's kid but he really had a soft spot for Paul McCartney and he really kind of got what Paul was going through and was very genuine and generous to to Paul in his commentaries.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Didn't he wasn't that the album that he referenced and he said that you know there were a lot of records in my parents' apartment but that was one that that that had a lot showed a lot of wear on it which means that that they had been listening to it I'm not sure if it was that one or if it was the next one.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

That's why I can't remember if it was that one or if it was the next one yeah yeah I I'm not exactly sure either it's somewhere in my notes but there's so much in there. So mainly this movie concerns itself with like the formation of wings and the life span of the band wings because it kind of ends when so when when that band breaks up and Paul moves on to his solo career. And I didn't really know a whole lot about wings. I mean I kind of knew the the hits or whatever but I've never dug into like the history of that band or you know how it went down so I I I was I was very happy to to to watch all this stuff. This is like filling in major sort of blind spots in my Beatles you know knowledge um and it was kind of cool and they sort of showed the whole evolution of the band and the different songs as they were the as they were coming out. You got the uh what was it 1985? What it I mean the the guy could still write some insanely catchy songs. You know what I mean? Like he hadn't lost it because there was a little bit there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Incredible and and I and there's some I ridiculously good songs that did come out of that era.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Yeah I never realized that Live and Let Die was like a metaphor for like I want to live and let the beatles die. Yes. Like I thought I thought I thought it was totally about Like the movie. He was just doing like a movie soundtrack or whatever. Um, so that was uh that was interesting. Um, I like the part where uh they were they're cutting to like all those different films that are coming out at the time, Butch and Bonnie and Clyde, Butch and Sundance, Easy Rider. It's like people on the run, outlaws, and like that's what Paul was wanting. You know, he wanted he just wanted to be like young and vital. And it's uh, you know, but he's he's also like this fabulously wealthy guy that owns multiple homes and stuff like that, but he he wants to be this other guy. I mean it's kind of it's kind of fascinating, you know, this predicament that that you know not many people in the world will ever find themselves in because not many people in the world become the most famous musician on the planet. You know?

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Um the uh that it was I you know when they when they got to the part where they where they talked about John you know being killed, I thought it was one of the most just heart, you know, wrenching parts of the whole film was that like little interview that they where they like asked him about it and you know he's like trying to be stoic. And he's you can just tell that he's so irritated by the the fact that like the guy was asking the question but he still answered it. And but you could really tell that like he was so deeply affected by it. And you know, it's just like I don't know, man, it humanizes him and and you know, it's like oh yes, yes, he is one of the biggest musicians to ever walk the planet and one of the best songwriters, but he was a human too, and he had just lost a guy that was like his brother.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Yeah. Well, and it's and and and and once again, Sean Oko Lennon is like so crucial to the understanding of this part of the film. I mean, basically, um Wings is is basically over by December of 1979. You know, McCartney says the enthusiasm is peaked, they show the footage from the last show that Wings ever did, and it's just depressing. And then like they they they book this tour in Japan that they were gonna do, and then Paul gets busted and like tour tour is over, band is over, it's done. And then McCartney is finds himself once again where he was like 10 years before that, and he makes McCartney 2, his next solo album. That's the one that Sean Lennon said they loved in their house, and that was that it was well worn. And they they they showed a little clip of John saying, like, oh yeah, that's that there's got a lot of good stuff on there. So you know he liked it. And then and then Ono lets us know that they were cool with each other in the end, because like at the end of the one-on-one doc, we didn't get the John Lennon death. We got it was it was it was a moment in time, right? Right. Um and so in this doc we get it, which is another kind of cool thing about watching them both together. It's because like we're kind of left hanging in a way at the end of the Lennon dock, and then the McCartney dock gives us a little piece of what we were we were looking for at the end of that Lennon dock. Um, and what I really, really loved was Sean Oko Lennon's defense of Paul McCartney, who took some criticism in the immediate aftermath. I mean, basically, they they they have a part where um I think it's Linda McCartney talking about getting the phone call that answering the phone when they called to tell Paul that John had died and handing off the phone to them. They actually you actually hear her reminiscing on that. And then the next thing you see is McCartney getting a microphone shoved in his face, like outside of his apartment, like like eight hours later that day. It's like he he got the call in the morning, so he he had had it all day, and he's basically like in shock, and they interview him outside of that building, and he is so just like nonchalant and chill about it. He's like, Yeah, it's a terrible thing. Like, it's yeah, it's really wild, you know, and he seems like aloof, but Sean Lennon is like, nah, I I see I can see exactly what's happening. That guy's in a state of shock right there. He would never, he would never be aloof about this. He didn't know how to process this. He shouldn't have been being interviewed right then and there. They caught him by surprise, and he was throwing up a defense mechanism and didn't hadn't even begun processing what was going on. So um I really, really love that. Of course, they end up that's right, they end up canceling the wings tour at that point because of like safety precautions because they were so freaked out about all of that kind of stuff. And the last little little bit of like performance that you get in this film was a beautiful, beautiful reminiscence of You Are My Sunshine with John, I mean with Paul, Linda, and that guy Denny Lane. Yeah, absolutely beautiful. And in that one, Linda was actually doing some decent singing. Um so yeah, it is nice how they how they pull it back together at the end and show you that like him and John were they were cool at the end.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Have um let me let me ask you, did you have like have you ever gotten to see like Paul McCartney?

SPEAKER_00 49:08

No, no, you know I haven't seen Paul McCartney.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

I don't know that. I don't know that at all. Okay, go ahead. Sorry. So I'm not trying to like rub it in your face. Come on, man. Go ahead. You know that it's the but I had I I had a moment personally in when they were doing Liverlet Die, and you they get to the you know the the the opus part of it, which is the dun dun dun. And they're doing the the fire, like the fireworks or like the um the pyrotechnics, I should say, on stage with that. And I was like, oh my god, they've been doing that since since he started like like that that's been a part of his show for forty years. Like I like absolutely love the fact that like that part of that show has essentially it's gotten obviously bigger, but is kind of unchanged from the way they did it, you know, when they first wrote that song. And like I just thought that was so cool. Because it just it brought me back, it brought me back to that to that moment. And you know, I I remember, and I still to this day, like, you know, one of the things that I will always say about that performance versus anything else I've ever I've ever seen live is that it was very um it's about as close to a religious experience that I've you know feel like I've ever really come to. And you know, because you had you know a hundred thousand people all in the same like wavelength, you know, for a moment in time where you're just all together and you know music is a beautiful thing in that way that it could that it could weave a hundred thousand strangers you know together in harmony all at once. And it takes a special person and special people that are able to to do that. And you know, Paul McCartney is a treasure, and you know, John Lennon was a treasure. And it's it's sad that John didn't get to to have the the latter half, you know, that he his flame burned out so you know so so young because you know Yeah, that tragedy was very apparent to me in watching these things as well.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Like that that that you know we get to see all this from McCartney and just like God knows the amount of creativity that that guy had, like what what he would have come out with. I mean, when you look at his solo work, you know, Lennon solo work in the time, you know, after the Beatles, like it was pretty damned incredible. Who knows? There's a couple of other things I wanted to uh mention that one one big parallel that I found between the two films. Um I mentioned, of course, how just blown away, gobsmacked I was by that one set piece in the Lennon film where they panned across the bed and then cut to the black and white still photo. Did you notice they did that at the very, very end of the of the McCartney movie as well? They showed like modern day, a modern day sort of like it was like it was a film, it was an action live action shot, but it was like a photograph because it was just a still shot of the vista from the farm with the fence looking out over the hills, and then it cuts, and it's almost the exact same shot. And it's Paul McCartney walk as a young man when they first were living there, walking down the walking across the edge of that fence, like trying to keep his balance and then like losing his balance and falling off and like jumping into the abyss. And I'm like, yeah, good metaphor, good metaphor to throw in right there at the end. You know, McCartney just like taking that leap into the abyss, and he know doesn't know where he's gonna land. And yeah, it's kind of like what it what that whole movie was about was like that that one motion, McCartney jumping into the unknown, uh, which is good. There was also a quick little shot. He had he had wings like out on out on a boat on some lock in Scotland at some point for a for a to shoot a video and do a photo session. And they they had a moment, and I love this when you see this in docs every now and then, where you see you see like live footage of a photo session happening, and then you get to see the photo that was taken in that thing that you just watched of that, you know what I mean? So they have one of those, and it's like it's so fascinating to to kind of go back and forth. Um, and then the last thing on the movie is uh that they uh the the song that they finished it out with, which was Let Me Roll It, which is just like perfect for the ending. It's the one where he says, My heart is like a wheel, let me roll it to you. And that's what he does. That's what he spent the rest of his life doing, is is is is putting his heart out there for us, you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Yeah, no, I'm I'm with you. I'm with you. He uh, like I said, he's he is a cultural touchstone, and you know, and it thank you know, thankfully we've gotten many, many years to enjoy, you know, his presence of you know with us, and sadly his brother was not given that opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Nope, nope. Um, I I wanted to mention, if you are looking to fill out this puzzle uh or this this uh project with with the Beatles, there is on Max a two-part Martin Scorsese directed George Harrison documentary called Living in the Material World. Now it came out in like 2011 or something like that. But you know, if you want to if you want to get the George Harrison end of things, I'm sure that this period of time will be in there somewhere. It's not I don't think it's like these movies where it it's it's all about that period of time, but um that's out there for you if you want to check that out.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Uh and speaking of of documentaries about I was gonna say there's also a documentary on Disney Plus that I almost turned out, turned on the other day that is a a Beatles um documentary. God, of course, I can't remember what it is here. I'll look it up. Hold on, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Go on with what you wrote. Well, there's also Get Back, which everybody saw a couple of years ago during the pandemic or right after the pandemic, that whole thing. That's what's on there, I think. Yeah, get back is a I mean, that's like a must-watch. That was like one of the most incredible things ever. And you know that in 2028, I believe there are four Beatles movies, like live action Beatles movies, one about each Beatle coming out. So we have that to look forward to. Last thing, uh, I just watched Rise, the Rise of the Red Hot Chili Peppers colon, our brother Hillel. If you are a Chili Peppers fan and you want to learn all about their original guitarist, who who some people don't even realize existed because John Fruciante became such a an integral part of the red hot chili pepper sound and and and you know, the the most uh dominant portion of their career. Um they had a guitarist before John Fruciante's name was Hillel Slovak. And he he and Keatis and and Flea were like brothers, you know, just like just like just like uh you know Lennon and McCartney were brothers. Yeah, he died of an overdose. Um so if you're into the chili peppers, definitely check out that movie. It's it's really it's really well made as well.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

So there's actually there's there's four documentaries, it looks like there's Get Back. They also did one in 2024 called The Beatles Let It Be. That's the one that I almost turned on. Yeah. Um there's always a ton of Beatles shit. Beatles 64, which also came out in 2024, um The Beatles anthology, and then one that I'm guarantee I'm gonna watch very soon. There's something on Hulu called McCartney 321, and it's the picture is I'm pretty sure Paul McCartney and Rick Rubin. Interesting. Yeah, I I did hear about that. I heard about that. Color interested. Yeah. So there's plenty of Beatles material out there for for you to uh to digest. Um the Beatles anthology that came out on TV like in the late 90s was also amazing. There is some great music that came out of that that I you know one of my absolute, you know, favorite Beatles songs. Beatles or off of anthology one was You Can't Do That. It's this older style Beatles song, it's so damn good. Um, I highly recommend it if you don't know it. It is a song that I had never heard prior to that, and then it's become one of my absolute favorites for uh all time. So plenty of stuff out there uh on the Beatles. Anything else you got?

SPEAKER_00 57:35

No, sir.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Well, on that note, we will end it right there. Uh go out and watch some Beatles films, listen to some Beatles music. It is always something that can make you feel real good. I think uh on my way uh around town today, I think I might throw some Beatles music on and just get lost in it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

So Yeah, this is uh and this is like a really, really good pairing. Like if you want to pair like I we we hit a home run with this with this pairing, just just something about the two films and how similar they are and how many parallels there were that like you know, name name a better pairing of of two Beatles films. You know, this is this is really, really fun.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

It was, it was, it was so on that note, we'll end it there. Thank you guys for joining us. Um, for the the Inglorious Brothers, I'm Justin, that's Matt. Have a great week. We'll see you on the next episode. Ciao.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Inglorious Brothers is a Harporama production and a part of the Harparama family of podcasts. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Please like, subscribe, and follow, leave a five-star review, and most importantly, tell all your friends about us. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time. And uh, oh yeah, Ariva Derchi.